PeopleForce Podcast
The PeopleForce Podcast takes a fresh look at the entrepreneurial journey on the path to success. Host Michael Mendenhall, former TriNet SVP/CMO/CCO, interviews dynamic business leaders as they share their insights on how they got there, plus their viewpoint on today’s business trends.
PeopleForce Podcast
Finding Success at the Intersection of Creativity and Data
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
TriNet’s Michael Mendenhall discusses creativity and data with Drew Stein, CEO of Audigent. Drew has successfully founded, built and runs businesses in advertising, production, music, entertainment, branding and technology and he shares with us how people and virtue are key to success.
1
00:00:00,340 --> 00:00:02,923
(upbeat music)
2
00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:10,470
Welcome to Shifting Grounds by TriNet.
3
00:00:10,470 --> 00:00:12,810
And I'm your host, Michael Mendenhall.
4
00:00:12,810 --> 00:00:16,170
TriNet is a full service
HR solutions company.
5
00:00:16,170 --> 00:00:18,450
We are committed to empowering small
6
00:00:18,450 --> 00:00:21,600
and medium sized businesses,
by supporting their growth,
7
00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,930
and most importantly,
enabling their people.
8
00:00:24,930 --> 00:00:26,310
We work with amazing,
9
00:00:26,310 --> 00:00:28,020
and I really mean, amazing,
10
00:00:28,020 --> 00:00:29,970
small and medium size businesses,
11
00:00:29,970 --> 00:00:33,900
and I'm excited to bring
their voices here to life.
12
00:00:33,900 --> 00:00:36,570
You can catch new episodes
of Shifting Grounds
13
00:00:36,570 --> 00:00:39,099
every month on Apple, Spotify,
14
00:00:39,099 --> 00:00:43,350
rise.trinet.com, and YouTube.
15
00:00:43,350 --> 00:00:45,090
And if you don't know how to spell TriNet,
16
00:00:45,090 --> 00:00:48,390
it's T R I N E T.com.
17
00:00:48,390 --> 00:00:50,730
We are here on a Thursday,
before a weekend,
18
00:00:50,730 --> 00:00:54,000
and I'm sure you're all racing
off, building all your plans,
19
00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,770
whether they're recreational,
20
00:00:55,770 --> 00:00:57,090
whether you're going out shopping
21
00:00:57,090 --> 00:00:59,040
or going to restaurants and dining,
22
00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:00,930
you're ready to start to
get that weekend going.
23
00:01:00,930 --> 00:01:02,400
But before you do,
24
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,970
I have the pleasure of
introducing to you Drew Stein,
25
00:01:05,970 --> 00:01:08,430
who is the Founder and CEO of Audigent.
26
00:01:08,430 --> 00:01:10,170
This is an amazing company,
27
00:01:10,170 --> 00:01:13,140
a company that has grown exponentially
28
00:01:13,140 --> 00:01:15,660
to over 100 employees.
29
00:01:15,660 --> 00:01:16,890
These guys are working with
30
00:01:16,890 --> 00:01:19,110
all the major brands that you know
31
00:01:19,110 --> 00:01:20,730
that are in your household.
32
00:01:20,730 --> 00:01:22,710
He is a serial entrepreneur, Drew,
33
00:01:22,710 --> 00:01:24,990
and has successfully founded and built,
34
00:01:24,990 --> 00:01:29,280
and runs businesses in
advertising, production, music,
35
00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,420
entertainment and branding,
along with technology.
36
00:01:33,420 --> 00:01:35,190
This guy is almost in everything,
37
00:01:35,190 --> 00:01:37,740
and we're gonna find out
how he does all of that.
38
00:01:37,740 --> 00:01:39,750
He understands the intersection though,
39
00:01:39,750 --> 00:01:42,060
between creativity and data,
40
00:01:42,060 --> 00:01:44,370
and the importance of data privacy.
41
00:01:44,370 --> 00:01:46,950
And we're gonna get more into that today.
42
00:01:46,950 --> 00:01:49,620
And he understands that he wants to build
43
00:01:49,620 --> 00:01:51,210
this sort of working environment
44
00:01:51,210 --> 00:01:54,570
or virtual ecosystem
between digital media,
45
00:01:54,570 --> 00:01:57,300
ensuring consumers, publishers
46
00:01:57,300 --> 00:01:59,280
and creative content people win.
47
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:00,810
So all of these people are gonna win,
48
00:02:00,810 --> 00:02:03,300
and we're gonna find out
all about how he does that,
49
00:02:03,300 --> 00:02:05,250
and how he balances his time
50
00:02:05,250 --> 00:02:07,890
working in all of these
different industries.
51
00:02:07,890 --> 00:02:10,590
So, let's please welcome Drew.
52
00:02:10,590 --> 00:02:11,940
Drew, welcome.
53
00:02:11,940 --> 00:02:13,740
It's great to have you.
54
00:02:13,740 --> 00:02:15,840
We're so thrilled.
55
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:17,880
Certainly you've got a lot going on.
56
00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,660
We have sort of talked a
little bit in the intro
57
00:02:21,660 --> 00:02:25,860
about all of the different
industries you've combined,
58
00:02:25,860 --> 00:02:28,890
but more importantly, we want to get into,
59
00:02:28,890 --> 00:02:31,050
where'd you get a start?
60
00:02:31,050 --> 00:02:34,200
How did you get into this
very interesting background?
61
00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,870
Because you started in one
industry, moved to another,
62
00:02:36,870 --> 00:02:39,630
and certainly very different, right?
63
00:02:39,630 --> 00:02:41,640
But you have skill sets
that certainly applied,
64
00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:45,840
and certainly applied across your career.
65
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,080
So I would love for you
to just talk about like,
66
00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:50,370
how did you get into this?
67
00:02:50,370 --> 00:02:54,390
I mean, New York City
you grew up, you know,
68
00:02:54,390 --> 00:02:59,310
and there people believe you're successful
69
00:02:59,310 --> 00:03:01,380
if you're, one, probably in media,
70
00:03:01,380 --> 00:03:02,940
'cause it's a big media hub,
71
00:03:02,940 --> 00:03:05,542
but more importantly, you know, doctor,
72
00:03:05,542 --> 00:03:10,542
lawyer, finance, Wall Street,
and you got into this.
73
00:03:10,890 --> 00:03:13,530
And I'd love to hear your story about
74
00:03:13,530 --> 00:03:16,470
why you got into finance
75
00:03:16,470 --> 00:03:19,320
and how you got into a creative role.
76
00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:20,880
And we'll get into then,
77
00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:25,353
some of the specificity
around that journey.
78
00:03:26,460 --> 00:03:28,500
Well, first and foremost, Michael,
79
00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:31,620
I am absolutely thrilled
to be here with you today.
80
00:03:31,620 --> 00:03:33,930
And appreciate the opportunity
81
00:03:33,930 --> 00:03:36,150
to get a chance to talk with you,
82
00:03:36,150 --> 00:03:38,670
and really just excited to be here
83
00:03:38,670 --> 00:03:41,070
and share a little bit
more about my story.
84
00:03:41,070 --> 00:03:41,903
Yeah,
85
00:03:41,903 --> 00:03:44,050
I was born and raised in
New York City, in Manhattan.
86
00:03:45,968 --> 00:03:47,536
Oh, that's interesting.
87
00:03:47,536 --> 00:03:48,369
(chuckles)
88
00:03:48,369 --> 00:03:50,697
I hope you all caught that guys?
89
00:03:50,697 --> 00:03:52,170
It was New York City,
90
00:03:52,170 --> 00:03:54,030
and he didn't say Brooklyn, right?
91
00:03:54,030 --> 00:03:55,368
He said Manhattan.
92
00:03:55,368 --> 00:03:58,380
There's a lot of rivalries between
93
00:03:58,380 --> 00:04:00,090
all of these boroughs in New York.
94
00:04:00,090 --> 00:04:03,240
So, we appreciate the clarification there.
95
00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:04,073
Well,
96
00:04:04,073 --> 00:04:06,270
Manhattan is certainly
the home of Wall Street,
97
00:04:06,270 --> 00:04:09,480
and like many kids who grew up here,
98
00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:11,550
I had a parent that was in finance.
99
00:04:11,550 --> 00:04:14,880
And so I had a pretty
narrow lane growing up,
100
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,090
and people knew that you
could be a doctor, a lawyer,
101
00:04:18,090 --> 00:04:19,830
or you could go to Wall Street,
102
00:04:19,830 --> 00:04:23,220
and that was something that
was kind of ingrained in me
103
00:04:23,220 --> 00:04:25,170
as if it was part of my DNA.
104
00:04:25,170 --> 00:04:26,970
But the truth is,
105
00:04:26,970 --> 00:04:30,720
I think my passions
had other plans for me
106
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,640
and I was very fortunate.
107
00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:34,293
So growing up here,
108
00:04:35,340 --> 00:04:37,740
my father's very first client,
109
00:04:37,740 --> 00:04:40,590
and a guy that became like family,
110
00:04:40,590 --> 00:04:43,830
almost like a grandfather
to me, was an artist,
111
00:04:43,830 --> 00:04:47,730
an abstract expressionist
artist named, Esteban Vicente.
112
00:04:47,730 --> 00:04:52,730
And so I grew up on one side
where I was with my father
113
00:04:53,250 --> 00:04:55,350
and everything was about
finance and Wall Street.
114
00:04:55,350 --> 00:04:59,130
And on this other side there
was this incredible creative
115
00:04:59,130 --> 00:05:02,400
force in my life that
was incredibly nurturing
116
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:03,660
and a grandfather figure.
117
00:05:03,660 --> 00:05:08,660
What type of medium was
he in, your mentor there?
118
00:05:08,850 --> 00:05:13,421
So, he was one of
the premier collagists,
119
00:05:13,421 --> 00:05:16,920
and abstract expressionist
painters from the new school.
120
00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:18,360
And to this day,
121
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,930
I'm just beyond proud to be
a part of his foundation,
122
00:05:21,930 --> 00:05:26,220
and it's the most exciting
part of the charitable work
123
00:05:26,220 --> 00:05:28,980
that I do outside of my day job.
124
00:05:28,980 --> 00:05:30,420
So, you know,
125
00:05:30,420 --> 00:05:32,670
it was incredible growing up in his studio
126
00:05:32,670 --> 00:05:34,320
and being in the back of it,
127
00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,360
and playing in the
gardens that he painted.
128
00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,840
It was a big part of my childhood.
129
00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:43,890
And so I had kind of this dual life,
130
00:05:43,890 --> 00:05:45,720
these two father figures in my life,
131
00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:47,760
a grandfather figure and my father,
132
00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,560
and they could not have been
133
00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:50,790
more different from one another.
134
00:05:50,790 --> 00:05:55,413
And I learned a lot about myself.
135
00:05:57,390 --> 00:05:58,650
Did your family wonder like,
136
00:05:58,650 --> 00:06:01,320
who is this other father figure,
137
00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,270
and who is this guy, and what is he doing?
138
00:06:03,270 --> 00:06:05,160
And why are you spending all your time
139
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:06,213
over there with him?
140
00:06:07,860 --> 00:06:08,693
They were our family.
141
00:06:08,693 --> 00:06:10,440
- Okay.
- Every family gathering
142
00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:11,273
they were.
143
00:06:11,273 --> 00:06:13,800
It was literally when my
father first hung a shingle,
144
00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,323
this was the first client
that walked in his door.
145
00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:22,050
And for 50 years, I knew them as family,
146
00:06:22,050 --> 00:06:26,070
not as one of my father's clients.
147
00:06:26,070 --> 00:06:30,600
So I really benefited
from having this duality,
148
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,970
and it allowed me to kind of develop
149
00:06:32,970 --> 00:06:35,880
both sides of my brain,
and embrace them frankly,
150
00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:37,323
left side, right side,
151
00:06:38,550 --> 00:06:43,020
and live kind of along
that middle purpose.
152
00:06:43,020 --> 00:06:44,970
How long were you in the financial role?
153
00:06:44,970 --> 00:06:48,150
So you went into finance,
you're there on Wall Street,
154
00:06:48,150 --> 00:06:51,300
talk about what you were doing
there. What was your role?
155
00:06:51,300 --> 00:06:52,980
And how long were you there
156
00:06:52,980 --> 00:06:55,080
before you decided, "You know what?
157
00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:56,340
I'm gonna follow something
158
00:06:56,340 --> 00:06:59,310
that I've been passionate
about and that I love"?
159
00:06:59,310 --> 00:07:02,340
So, I went to Northwestern,
160
00:07:02,340 --> 00:07:05,400
like many kids, got
great summer internships.
161
00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,050
Most of them were actually in
162
00:07:07,050 --> 00:07:08,790
creative side of advertising.
163
00:07:08,790 --> 00:07:11,110
And I was very lucky
to fall in love with it
164
00:07:12,432 --> 00:07:17,070
and be exposed to that
with those internships.
165
00:07:17,070 --> 00:07:22,070
But like many other kids
coming out of school,
166
00:07:22,110 --> 00:07:23,820
there are these training programs,
167
00:07:23,820 --> 00:07:27,780
and I think it was almost on a whim
168
00:07:27,780 --> 00:07:29,490
somebody at one of the Wall Street firms,
169
00:07:29,490 --> 00:07:31,380
it was CS First Boston, said, "Hey,
170
00:07:31,380 --> 00:07:32,970
let's take this creative guy
171
00:07:32,970 --> 00:07:36,360
and let's put him in a finance role."
172
00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,530
And I spent about five years
173
00:07:40,530 --> 00:07:44,730
in that capacity working in finance
174
00:07:44,730 --> 00:07:46,260
and working on Wall Street
175
00:07:46,260 --> 00:07:49,743
before I moved on and decided that.
176
00:07:50,783 --> 00:07:52,170
Did you have any
177
00:07:52,170 --> 00:07:54,690
sort of side hustle with the creative side
178
00:07:54,690 --> 00:07:55,950
as you're working on Wall Street?
179
00:07:55,950 --> 00:07:57,568
Or was it really just heads down,
180
00:07:57,568 --> 00:07:59,523
we're doing finance for now?
181
00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:01,560
For the first three years,
182
00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,900
when I was at First Boston,
it was just full on
183
00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:07,320
and I was fully focused and
completely immersed in it.
184
00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,140
But it was after that where
I kind of got the itch.
185
00:08:10,140 --> 00:08:13,110
I knew something wasn't quite right.
186
00:08:13,110 --> 00:08:17,910
And I started thinking about
being more entrepreneurial.
187
00:08:17,910 --> 00:08:21,180
I started thinking about
ideas that I was having
188
00:08:21,180 --> 00:08:22,860
and it was kind of at that moment
189
00:08:22,860 --> 00:08:26,400
where I knew it was time
to make a transition.
190
00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:31,380
And I had been talking to
an old mentor, Scott Elias,
191
00:08:31,380 --> 00:08:35,370
who ran a music production
company called Elias Arts.
192
00:08:35,370 --> 00:08:38,610
And I had been an intern for Scott
193
00:08:38,610 --> 00:08:39,690
and I had stayed in touch,
194
00:08:39,690 --> 00:08:40,710
and he's still to this day
195
00:08:40,710 --> 00:08:43,470
one of the great mentors of my life.
196
00:08:43,470 --> 00:08:48,060
And he was the guy that
said, "Okay, let's go."
197
00:08:48,060 --> 00:08:51,270
And I came back from interning
198
00:08:51,270 --> 00:08:52,900
and I came back into his company
199
00:08:52,900 --> 00:08:55,176
and the rest was history.
200
00:08:55,176 --> 00:09:00,176
I got to embrace a completely
different side of who I am,
201
00:09:01,230 --> 00:09:04,200
explore not just the entrepreneurial side
202
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:05,940
of what I was interested in doing,
203
00:09:05,940 --> 00:09:10,560
but also immerse myself in
the creative side of that.
204
00:09:10,560 --> 00:09:11,580
Did you have family,
205
00:09:11,580 --> 00:09:13,357
friends who basically were like,
206
00:09:13,357 --> 00:09:14,190
"Wait, wait,
207
00:09:14,190 --> 00:09:17,730
you're leaving finance and
you're going into a creative role
208
00:09:17,730 --> 00:09:20,100
doing what with an agency?"
209
00:09:20,100 --> 00:09:21,360
You know,
210
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:22,837
most of the time people think,
211
00:09:22,837 --> 00:09:26,280
"Oh, well, the creative world,
that's a creative person."
212
00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:27,510
And I'll put quotes around that
213
00:09:27,510 --> 00:09:29,010
'cause they think there's some
214
00:09:29,010 --> 00:09:34,010
abstract thing going on over
there with the creative folks,
215
00:09:34,890 --> 00:09:36,810
and you have something
that's more concrete,
216
00:09:36,810 --> 00:09:37,980
that's financing.
217
00:09:37,980 --> 00:09:39,997
Did people through that
transition say like,
218
00:09:39,997 --> 00:09:41,100
"What are you doing?
219
00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:43,500
You're gonna leave this to go take
220
00:09:43,500 --> 00:09:46,530
this risky job in creative?"
221
00:09:46,530 --> 00:09:48,510
Michael, my mother literally cried.
222
00:09:48,510 --> 00:09:50,220
I remember the conversation.
223
00:09:50,220 --> 00:09:53,377
And we sat down and I said,
224
00:09:53,377 --> 00:09:55,380
"I'm leaving Wall Street.
225
00:09:55,380 --> 00:09:58,350
I'm leaving finance and I'm going to go
226
00:09:58,350 --> 00:10:00,390
into the creative side of advertising."
227
00:10:00,390 --> 00:10:04,260
And my mother just couldn't comprehend
228
00:10:04,260 --> 00:10:06,810
that I would make such a leap.
229
00:10:06,810 --> 00:10:09,270
And I said it was something I had to do
230
00:10:09,270 --> 00:10:12,150
and it was something I was
really passionate about.
231
00:10:12,150 --> 00:10:15,660
And told her I promised her
232
00:10:15,660 --> 00:10:17,100
that it was gonna work out in the end
233
00:10:17,100 --> 00:10:18,720
and it certainly has.
234
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:19,553
Yeah.
235
00:10:19,553 --> 00:10:21,120
You know, when you think about creative,
236
00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:22,800
I'd love your opinion on this,
237
00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:27,360
but what people don't tend
to realize all the time is,
238
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,440
in the creative world with
the narratives you tell,
239
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,270
you can change the world.
240
00:10:33,270 --> 00:10:35,760
You can change people's perspectives.
241
00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,160
You can change people's opinions.
242
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,640
You can motivate people
and you can touch them
243
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,740
in a very personal way.
244
00:10:43,740 --> 00:10:46,260
Do you find that being
in the creative world,
245
00:10:46,260 --> 00:10:49,590
you feel like you have that ability
246
00:10:49,590 --> 00:10:51,750
and that is so much different
247
00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:55,320
in leaving a legacy than
working on Wall Street?
248
00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:56,520
Well, I think we move markets.
249
00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,520
I think the creative side moves markets.
250
00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:00,690
It's funny,
251
00:11:00,690 --> 00:11:02,310
I think when it comes to messaging
252
00:11:02,310 --> 00:11:04,350
and connecting to people, right,
253
00:11:04,350 --> 00:11:09,350
it's at the very least
50% of breaking through.
254
00:11:11,220 --> 00:11:14,220
When you think about the
great campaigns of all time,
255
00:11:14,220 --> 00:11:16,140
that's the difference, right?
256
00:11:16,140 --> 00:11:17,850
When you think about Apple,
257
00:11:17,850 --> 00:11:19,707
you think of Nike, you think of HP,
258
00:11:19,707 --> 00:11:22,803
you think of the great brands.
259
00:11:24,630 --> 00:11:27,360
You think about the iconic campaigns
260
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,870
and the iconic creative
that drove their brands
261
00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:33,210
and elevated them within the minds
262
00:11:33,210 --> 00:11:36,000
of all of the consumers and
business partners, frankly,
263
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,010
and Wall Street for that matter.
264
00:11:38,010 --> 00:11:40,650
I think it inspires.
265
00:11:40,650 --> 00:11:43,473
It's aspirational and
it also inspires people.
266
00:11:44,460 --> 00:11:47,820
So yes. 100%, Michael.
It moves markets.
267
00:11:47,820 --> 00:11:50,370
It's not an invisible hand.
268
00:11:50,370 --> 00:11:55,293
It is a major force that drives
the success of companies.
269
00:11:56,430 --> 00:11:58,230
Well, let's talk about this,
270
00:11:58,230 --> 00:12:01,200
because you're right in the middle of it.
271
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,150
I want you to sort of talk about
272
00:12:03,150 --> 00:12:06,180
all the different companies
you've had your fingers
273
00:12:06,180 --> 00:12:11,130
into their sort of
operations and help create.
274
00:12:11,130 --> 00:12:11,963
But then there's one
275
00:12:11,963 --> 00:12:13,740
we're gonna really talk
about called Audigent.
276
00:12:13,740 --> 00:12:16,860
But let's talk about all of these things
277
00:12:16,860 --> 00:12:20,310
and how you got into
these various businesses
278
00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:21,753
and where you are today.
279
00:12:22,650 --> 00:12:24,870
Well, music was my first passion
280
00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:29,580
and I started at first with Scott Elias
281
00:12:29,580 --> 00:12:31,560
and a music production company,
282
00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:34,740
and then went from music and
sound design and audio post.
283
00:12:34,740 --> 00:12:35,573
And before we knew it,
284
00:12:35,573 --> 00:12:38,250
we had a full post house with editorial
285
00:12:38,250 --> 00:12:40,350
and animation and motion graphics.
286
00:12:40,350 --> 00:12:41,580
And before you knew that,
287
00:12:41,580 --> 00:12:43,150
then we were shooting TV commercials,
288
00:12:43,150 --> 00:12:47,130
and that's when everything
kind of changed.
289
00:12:47,130 --> 00:12:48,180
We were out there,
290
00:12:48,180 --> 00:12:50,280
and the first thing that we knew,
291
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,080
something was different.
Budgets were starting to shift.
292
00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,490
Budgets that used to be a
million dollar commercial
293
00:12:56,490 --> 00:12:59,160
were all of a sudden
getting halfed, right?
294
00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,347
They went from a million to $500,000.
295
00:13:01,347 --> 00:13:04,680
And you start asking yourself,
well, what's going on?
296
00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:06,570
Why is the market shifting?
297
00:13:06,570 --> 00:13:11,570
And digital was this explosive
between web and mobile,
298
00:13:12,660 --> 00:13:17,550
and now CTV was this
absolutely explosive medium
299
00:13:17,550 --> 00:13:19,290
where the rules were changing.
300
00:13:19,290 --> 00:13:22,110
And creativity was
fundamentally changing as well.
301
00:13:22,110 --> 00:13:26,280
And how creativity got
delivered through that medium
302
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:27,660
was starting to change.
303
00:13:27,660 --> 00:13:32,660
And so I started, I guess
from the creative side,
304
00:13:32,790 --> 00:13:35,580
thinking about what I love most
305
00:13:35,580 --> 00:13:40,580
and how it is that I can
continue to pursue my passions
306
00:13:41,310 --> 00:13:44,160
and what's that gonna really
look like in the future?
307
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,020
And that's when I started thinking about
308
00:13:46,020 --> 00:13:48,240
media and ad tech and data.
309
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:52,387
And when I started dabbling
for the first time and said,
310
00:13:52,387 --> 00:13:54,180
"You know something?
311
00:13:54,180 --> 00:13:57,630
The world's changing,
devices are changing.
312
00:13:57,630 --> 00:14:00,030
Social media is changing the world
313
00:14:00,030 --> 00:14:02,520
and there's this juggernaut out there
314
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,640
that's inextricably bound
with the creative side.
315
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,030
And I think these two
forces are coming together
316
00:14:09,030 --> 00:14:10,590
in a way that's really exciting.
317
00:14:10,590 --> 00:14:13,290
And that's when I started
thinking about technology.
318
00:14:13,290 --> 00:14:14,910
And what I found
319
00:14:14,910 --> 00:14:18,570
was something really surprising, Michael.
320
00:14:18,570 --> 00:14:20,460
What I expected to find was something
321
00:14:20,460 --> 00:14:24,390
that was very business driven
and you know, technology,
322
00:14:24,390 --> 00:14:28,350
and engineers, and everything
that was very mass driven.
323
00:14:28,350 --> 00:14:30,510
And what I found was
actually the opposite.
324
00:14:30,510 --> 00:14:32,310
What I found was problem solvers,
325
00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:37,310
big thinkers, and extremely
creative people in technology.
326
00:14:38,220 --> 00:14:39,240
In fact,
327
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,540
some of the times when
I think about the DNA
328
00:14:42,540 --> 00:14:46,200
of someone who codes, an engineer,
329
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,720
and the DNA of a composer,
330
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,780
they seem so similar
at the end of the day.
331
00:14:51,780 --> 00:14:54,330
They think about problems in a unique way.
332
00:14:54,330 --> 00:14:56,460
They think about innovation.
333
00:14:56,460 --> 00:14:59,850
They're creatively trying to tell a story,
334
00:14:59,850 --> 00:15:04,380
one through music and one
through product that they create.
335
00:15:04,380 --> 00:15:09,000
And all of a sudden, I
realized like, wait a second,
336
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,780
there's this other side and
it's also very creative,
337
00:15:12,780 --> 00:15:15,570
and my passions could extend
deep into the other side
338
00:15:15,570 --> 00:15:18,450
of the business as well,
into this new frontier.
339
00:15:18,450 --> 00:15:20,610
And that's when I dove in hard.
340
00:15:20,610 --> 00:15:25,335
And since then my existence
341
00:15:25,335 --> 00:15:27,540
has really been about trying
342
00:15:27,540 --> 00:15:30,330
to reconnect the dots between those sides,
343
00:15:30,330 --> 00:15:33,060
and the importance of the
two coming together again.
344
00:15:33,060 --> 00:15:36,120
My entire career for the past 10 years
345
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:37,440
has been about how to bring
346
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,290
these two sides together in harmony.
347
00:15:40,290 --> 00:15:41,590
Is that Audigent?
348
00:15:41,590 --> 00:15:43,190
It's Audigent, yeah.
349
00:15:43,190 --> 00:15:44,970
Audigent is a data company.
350
00:15:44,970 --> 00:15:46,290
It's a technology company,
351
00:15:46,290 --> 00:15:51,240
but on every level it is a
swan song to content creators,
352
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,183
and to the creative side of advertising.
353
00:15:55,470 --> 00:15:56,580
People thought we were crazy.
354
00:15:56,580 --> 00:16:00,690
As a data company we hired
a chief creative officer.
355
00:16:00,690 --> 00:16:03,240
Who does that? Who even thinks about that?
356
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,550
And, we certainly did.
357
00:16:05,550 --> 00:16:08,940
And it's been one of the best decisions
358
00:16:08,940 --> 00:16:10,800
that we ever made as a company,
359
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,150
to be able to go in and
to speak to C-suites,
360
00:16:15,150 --> 00:16:17,340
not from the perspective of a technology,
361
00:16:17,340 --> 00:16:21,330
or not from the perspective
of just a media engine,
362
00:16:21,330 --> 00:16:24,540
but to really understand
that they're storytellers
363
00:16:24,540 --> 00:16:26,250
and there's a real brand there,
364
00:16:26,250 --> 00:16:28,680
and that there's a creative process.
365
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:30,540
And that at the end of the day,
366
00:16:30,540 --> 00:16:32,280
it's not just about putting an ad
367
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:34,590
in front of a person on a mobile phone,
368
00:16:34,590 --> 00:16:37,620
but it's about making a
deep connection with them,
369
00:16:37,620 --> 00:16:42,270
because you've crafted
a brilliant message,
370
00:16:42,270 --> 00:16:44,520
a big idea that you want to communicate,
371
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:45,810
and you've been able to put it
372
00:16:45,810 --> 00:16:48,450
in front of the right
person at the right time,
373
00:16:48,450 --> 00:16:49,650
and they connected with it,
374
00:16:49,650 --> 00:16:53,610
and they connected with it
in a way that drove outcomes.
375
00:16:53,610 --> 00:16:54,963
That's the excitement.
376
00:16:57,779 --> 00:16:59,117
I wanna come back to this
377
00:16:59,117 --> 00:17:00,870
'cause I want to give an example
378
00:17:00,870 --> 00:17:02,220
so people are really clear
379
00:17:02,220 --> 00:17:04,620
exactly how you work with these brands
380
00:17:04,620 --> 00:17:08,670
and how every audience that's
a part of this is a winner.
381
00:17:08,670 --> 00:17:10,470
But I wanted to go back to something
382
00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:14,160
that you were saying about the convergence
383
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,877
of all of these different
channels in communication,
384
00:17:17,877 --> 00:17:20,640
and what that has done, and
the complexity around that.
385
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,780
Have you seen streaming
affect what you're doing?
386
00:17:24,780 --> 00:17:26,340
We certainly know that Netflix
387
00:17:26,340 --> 00:17:28,350
and several of these streaming companies
388
00:17:28,350 --> 00:17:29,703
are now putting ads in.
389
00:17:30,660 --> 00:17:32,520
We just saw some of the reports
390
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,670
coming from Netflix and their earnings
391
00:17:35,670 --> 00:17:37,170
and they talked a lot about this.
392
00:17:37,170 --> 00:17:39,780
Do you see that impacting
what you're doing?
393
00:17:39,780 --> 00:17:42,870
CTV is. In general,
394
00:17:42,870 --> 00:17:47,870
ads or video ads around
CTV, OTT, is just booming.
395
00:17:49,170 --> 00:17:52,080
We talk about a recession-proof trend.
396
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,640
The growth in CTV is
absolutely unbelievable.
397
00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,140
So, yes,
398
00:17:58,140 --> 00:17:59,790
the amount of budget flowing
399
00:17:59,790 --> 00:18:02,880
into linear TV continues to go down,
400
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,237
and addressable TV and CTV,
401
00:18:06,237 --> 00:18:08,160
and OTT continues to just rocket ship.
402
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:13,160
And I don't think a future is too far away
403
00:18:13,500 --> 00:18:17,010
where all what formally
was linear television,
404
00:18:17,010 --> 00:18:18,390
will become addressable.
405
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:23,190
So I think everything is
becoming digital, Michael.
406
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:25,397
Everything is becoming addressable.
407
00:18:25,397 --> 00:18:30,397
And the days of unicast and
linear television are numbered.
408
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,380
But that creates exciting opportunity.
409
00:18:34,380 --> 00:18:37,230
Wow, every marketer should
be listening to this podcast,
410
00:18:37,230 --> 00:18:41,190
cause I think you're very
relevant in the trends
411
00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:43,020
and where this whole thing is going.
412
00:18:43,020 --> 00:18:44,430
I wanna get into then,
413
00:18:44,430 --> 00:18:47,730
let's walk through an
example so people understand.
414
00:18:47,730 --> 00:18:49,890
You work with a lot of major brands.
41500:18:49,890 --> 00:18:52,470
They're dealing with
this omnichannel mess.
416
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:53,760
- Yeah.
- And how do we begin
417
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,430
to optimize this, plan
this and be successful,
418
00:18:56,430 --> 00:18:59,730
and get customers engaged, right?
419
00:18:59,730 --> 00:19:01,260
It's all about engagement.
420
00:19:01,260 --> 00:19:03,090
And everyone now is saying, you know,
421
00:19:03,090 --> 00:19:04,920
third party cooking's going away.
422
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,100
Original content is gonna
be incredibly important,
423
00:19:08,100 --> 00:19:10,500
more important than it's ever, ever been.
424
00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:12,150
Walk us through, you know,
425
00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:13,980
I'm a brand, I've come to you,
426
00:19:13,980 --> 00:19:17,790
I have a a problem and I
gotta get it to market,
427
00:19:17,790 --> 00:19:20,010
and you're gonna help me.
- Yeah.
428
00:19:20,010 --> 00:19:21,753
Well, I'll give a great example,
429
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,020
call it an anonymized beauty brand.
430
00:19:25,020 --> 00:19:26,610
But a beauty brand came to us,
431
00:19:26,610 --> 00:19:30,180
and one thing I think
they did so well was,
432
00:19:30,180 --> 00:19:31,500
they nailed the big idea.
433
00:19:31,500 --> 00:19:33,720
And it's still really important
434
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,080
to know as marketers from a creative side,
435
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,570
the big idea is alive and well.
436
00:19:39,570 --> 00:19:41,010
Brands need to stand for something,
437
00:19:41,010 --> 00:19:43,230
there needs to be
authenticity around that.
438
00:19:43,230 --> 00:19:47,310
And they need to take that
step back and understand, hey,
439
00:19:47,310 --> 00:19:49,530
we still need to think about
440
00:19:49,530 --> 00:19:51,840
how we message and communicate the market,
441
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:56,340
and we still have to think
really big about our own brands.
442
00:19:56,340 --> 00:19:59,160
But this particular challenge
was really interesting.
443
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,250
As a beauty brand, their
audiences were split.
444
00:20:02,250 --> 00:20:06,480
They had millennials,
and then they had moms.
445
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,090
And between the moms and millennials.
446
00:20:09,090 --> 00:20:11,670
And the moms, would
they be baby boomers?
447
00:20:11,670 --> 00:20:14,190
Yeah, they were baby boomers.
448
00:20:14,190 --> 00:20:16,710
- Okay.
- And it was one product,
449
00:20:16,710 --> 00:20:19,980
and they said these are two
very distinct marketplaces,
450
00:20:19,980 --> 00:20:24,000
and even though they're not
two different products focused,
451
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,310
it was one product and
they knew they had to speak
452
00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:28,740
to two very distinct audiences.
453
00:20:28,740 --> 00:20:29,730
So as a company,
454
00:20:29,730 --> 00:20:32,370
we were able to go in, help them,
455
00:20:32,370 --> 00:20:34,830
one, most importantly,
456
00:20:34,830 --> 00:20:38,220
respect the authenticity of
the brand and the big idea.
457
00:20:38,220 --> 00:20:43,220
But they came to us with a 60
second, a one minute video,
458
00:20:44,850 --> 00:20:47,730
and we were able to take
that one minute video
459
00:20:47,730 --> 00:20:51,120
and create about 60
different assets from that,
460
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:53,280
50 to 60 different assets.
461
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,340
Half of them speaking to the mom audience,
462
00:20:56,340 --> 00:20:58,920
and half of them speaking
to the millennial audience.
463
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,070
And then from there we
were able to really dial
464
00:21:02,070 --> 00:21:05,763
into those beauty mavens
within each of those audiences.
465
00:21:10,466 --> 00:21:12,900
It was a specifically organic product,
466
00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:15,720
which we really loved, a green product.
467
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,080
And so we were really able to
dial into the right audiences
468
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,260
using our data sets from our
data partners at Audigent.
469
00:21:22,260 --> 00:21:25,680
And we've got incredible data partners
470
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,170
and we were able to find the audiences
471
00:21:28,170 --> 00:21:30,360
we thought that were able to best connect
472
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:32,313
with those crafted messages.
473
00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:36,900
So you knew
where the intent was, right?
474
00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:37,733
Yes.
475
00:21:37,733 --> 00:21:39,450
You're looking at intent
476
00:21:39,450 --> 00:21:41,730
and you're looking at
where those audiences are
477
00:21:41,730 --> 00:21:44,010
that have intent relative to this product,
478
00:21:44,010 --> 00:21:45,660
to get them to convert.
479
00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:46,493
Correct.
480
00:21:46,493 --> 00:21:48,960
And then it was about finding
them in a cost effective way
481
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,180
in the right places and
putting the right messages.
482
00:21:51,180 --> 00:21:52,710
So the millennial messages
483
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:55,440
were reaching the millennial audiences
484
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,930
on the devices and within the silos
485
00:21:57,930 --> 00:22:01,980
they were most likely going to
interact with those messages.
486
00:22:01,980 --> 00:22:03,540
And it was the same with the moms.
487
00:22:03,540 --> 00:22:05,880
It was about reaching them in the places,
488
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,350
the devices that they're most likely
489
00:22:07,350 --> 00:22:09,120
going to engage with the brand,
490
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:10,830
and putting the right
message in front of them.
491
00:22:10,830 --> 00:22:14,640
It was a just incredibly
successful campaign
492
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,680
and one that really stuck out for me
493
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,870
because there's an opportunity.
494
00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:20,820
There's the exact thing when I talk about
495
00:22:20,820 --> 00:22:23,670
connecting the dots between the two sides,
496
00:22:23,670 --> 00:22:26,850
in order to come together.
It was a big creative effort
497
00:22:26,850 --> 00:22:27,902
and a big technology effort.
498
00:22:27,902 --> 00:22:28,918
Yeah.
499
00:22:28,918 --> 00:22:29,760
You said something there
500
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,890
that was really important was,
501
00:22:31,890 --> 00:22:36,150
they came to the table
with a fundamental strategy
502
00:22:36,150 --> 00:22:38,430
that was very disciplined in what they
503
00:22:38,430 --> 00:22:41,010
needed to do with their product,
504
00:22:41,010 --> 00:22:42,600
and to which audiences.
505
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,600
And then you go help them execute this
506
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,193
in a very precise way.
507
00:22:48,090 --> 00:22:52,110
But the important thing
was the strategy up front.
508
00:22:52,110 --> 00:22:53,850
Have you worked with any companies?
509
00:22:53,850 --> 00:22:56,790
Cause you hear this in
sort of the brand world
510
00:22:56,790 --> 00:22:59,400
where they don't have that figured out
511
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,170
and are trying to go to market.
512
00:23:01,170 --> 00:23:03,930
And then do you try to
help them understand
513
00:23:03,930 --> 00:23:05,310
that if you don't have that
514
00:23:05,310 --> 00:23:08,670
narrative up front and
that strategy upfront,
515
00:23:08,670 --> 00:23:11,360
that nothing we can do is going to help?
516
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:14,130
Do you run into brands like that?
517
00:23:14,130 --> 00:23:15,154
Absolutely, Michael.
518
00:23:15,154 --> 00:23:17,610
I still think there's resistance
519
00:23:17,610 --> 00:23:19,185
to data on the creative side.
520
00:23:19,185 --> 00:23:21,808
We're still scared of
it in some ways, right?
521
00:23:21,808 --> 00:23:24,443
There's an idea that, wait a second,
522
00:23:24,443 --> 00:23:27,990
how are the numbers gonna
inform the big idea?
523
00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:31,350
And I don't think we
think about it that way.
524
00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:34,680
I think they work very well side-by-side.
525
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,380
The brand still has to
come up with that big idea.
526
00:23:37,380 --> 00:23:39,270
The brand still has to mean something.
527
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:41,640
Do you ever say to any of these folks,
528
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,560
- Yeah.
- where's your big idea?
529
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,660
Where's the idea? Where's
the narrative here?
530
00:23:45,660 --> 00:23:47,970
Absolutely. And they've gotta own that
531
00:23:47,970 --> 00:23:49,350
and it's gotta be real.
- Yeah.
532
00:23:49,350 --> 00:23:50,760
It's gotta be real to the product.
533
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,540
It's gotta be real to the brand itself.
534
00:23:54,540 --> 00:23:59,540
And then from there it's
about expression, right?
535
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:03,486
And expression is intrinsically creative.
536
00:24:03,486 --> 00:24:05,883
It doesn't make you less creative.
537
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,300
I believe you're even more creative
538
00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:12,690
to be able to take the broader idea
539
00:24:12,690 --> 00:24:14,970
and express it and message it
540
00:24:14,970 --> 00:24:19,233
in a way that's more coherent
for individual audiences.
541
00:24:20,130 --> 00:24:21,360
Frankly,
542
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:23,706
I think that's the exciting
part about digital.
543
00:24:23,706 --> 00:24:25,230
- Oh, yeah.
- And it's the exciting part
544
00:24:25,230 --> 00:24:26,400
about data.
545
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:31,020
And so, from our perspective,
there is still pushback,
546
00:24:31,020 --> 00:24:33,273
Michael, we see it all of the time.
547
00:24:35,264 --> 00:24:37,470
But I think what you're saying too is,
548
00:24:37,470 --> 00:24:41,460
you better have the creative
idea, the organizing principle.
549
00:24:41,460 --> 00:24:42,831
You better come with...
550
00:24:42,831 --> 00:24:43,664
- Absolutely.
- ...the content.
551
00:24:43,664 --> 00:24:47,310
Because content drives
drives the engagement.
552
00:24:47,310 --> 00:24:48,600
We can help you get it
553
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,960
to the right audience with
precision, in the right channel.
554
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,330
But you have to figure out
555
00:24:54,330 --> 00:24:56,940
what that organizing
creative principle is
556
00:24:56,940 --> 00:25:00,090
and have the idea and the content, right?
557
00:25:00,090 --> 00:25:04,290
Yeah. It's not about having
10 ideas for 10 audiences.
558
00:25:04,290 --> 00:25:06,810
It's about having one great idea
559
00:25:06,810 --> 00:25:10,980
that can be expressed 10 different ways
560
00:25:10,980 --> 00:25:13,020
to better speak to different audiences.
561
00:25:13,020 --> 00:25:14,430
And that's not a subtle difference.
562
00:25:14,430 --> 00:25:16,414
I can't wait to see this.
563
00:25:16,414 --> 00:25:17,580
(laughs)
564
00:25:17,580 --> 00:25:22,580
It's very exciting
actually, what you're doing.
565
00:25:23,250 --> 00:25:26,100
And certainly when you think about
566
00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:29,823
how behaviors have changed
in viewing, in listening.
567
00:25:31,020 --> 00:25:33,690
And certainly through COVID what we saw
568
00:25:33,690 --> 00:25:37,140
was just this dramatic leap 10 years ahead
569
00:25:37,140 --> 00:25:40,860
in the use of technology and
the consumption of content.
570
00:25:40,860 --> 00:25:42,990
And that shifts very quickly.
571
00:25:42,990 --> 00:25:46,830
And what we know is that
when there's a big event,
572
00:25:46,830 --> 00:25:49,770
a big sort of national life event,
573
00:25:49,770 --> 00:25:52,920
whether it was like 9/11 or COVID,
574
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,730
that behaviors get
adopted much more rapidly.
575
00:25:56,730 --> 00:25:59,850
And we certainly have
seen this through COVID.
576
00:25:59,850 --> 00:26:03,780
Have you seen changes in
the level of engagement
577
00:26:03,780 --> 00:26:06,780
from consumers relative
to what you're doing
578
00:26:06,780 --> 00:26:09,280
and the channels you're
working with due to COVID?
579
00:26:11,850 --> 00:26:12,683
Yeah,
580
00:26:12,683 --> 00:26:16,770
I think there's been
a massive acceleration
581
00:26:16,770 --> 00:26:18,750
around a lot of the digital platforms.
582
00:26:18,750 --> 00:26:21,900
We've had less face-to-face interaction
583
00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:24,210
and more interaction on our devices
584
00:26:24,210 --> 00:26:26,520
and within our social
media platforms, right?
585
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,520
That we've had to dive in
harder to feel connected.
586
00:26:31,650 --> 00:26:34,470
Whereas before there was
so much face-to-face.
587
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:36,570
More than ever we're spending time
588
00:26:36,570 --> 00:26:40,350
on our social media
platforms, on our devices,
589
00:26:40,350 --> 00:26:41,550
and using that as the means
590
00:26:41,550 --> 00:26:43,500
for communication in a world where,
591
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:46,350
especially over the past couple years,
592
00:26:46,350 --> 00:26:50,523
that face-to-face communication
has been a lot less.
593
00:26:51,390 --> 00:26:52,440
Absolutely.
594
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:53,453
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
595
00:26:54,660 --> 00:26:55,770
Who is your customer,
596
00:26:55,770 --> 00:26:59,100
because I can see a multitude of people
597
00:26:59,100 --> 00:27:02,130
wanting to engage with Audigent?
598
00:27:02,130 --> 00:27:07,130
Who is the customer you
call on to sort of showcase
599
00:27:07,290 --> 00:27:08,643
your capabilities?
600
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,360
So, brands and media
agencies are our customers.
601
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:13,800
And what I would say is,
602
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,100
we power today with our data and products,
603
00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:19,440
over a 100,000 campaigns a month.
604
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,890
And there is not a major
brand or a major sector
605
00:27:22,890 --> 00:27:26,460
that's not buying against our data sets.
606
00:27:26,460 --> 00:27:29,790
But do you have a relationship
directly with the brand,
607
00:27:29,790 --> 00:27:32,430
or just intermediary agencies?
608
00:27:32,430 --> 00:27:33,263
Both, right.
609
00:27:33,263 --> 00:27:34,380
- Okay.
- Sometimes we have
610
00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:36,240
relationships directly with a brand.
611
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:37,680
And one of the things we've seen is,
612
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,220
as programmatic media buying
613
00:27:41,220 --> 00:27:44,370
has moved in-house at
a lot of major brands,
614
00:27:44,370 --> 00:27:46,800
it's brought us a lot
closer to many brands.
615
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,250
But we have a lot of
media agency partners.
616
00:27:50,250 --> 00:27:52,830
We have a lot of brand direct partners.
617
00:27:52,830 --> 00:27:55,173
So, really both of them.
618
00:27:56,370 --> 00:27:57,480
Well, you know,
619
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,530
we at TriNet really
believe in people, right?
620
00:28:01,530 --> 00:28:02,940
None of this happens
621
00:28:02,940 --> 00:28:06,600
without the right
talent, the right people.
622
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,840
And no matter sort of their gender, age,
623
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,043
ethnicity, geography, cultural,
624
00:28:14,970 --> 00:28:18,210
this group or collection of people
625
00:28:18,210 --> 00:28:20,490
come together that form these companies,
626
00:28:20,490 --> 00:28:24,120
a company like Audigent,
and they make it a success.
627
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:25,920
They buy into the culture,
628
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,160
they buy into the
company and it's products
629
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:30,753
in a very emotional way.
630
00:28:32,100 --> 00:28:35,940
Where are you when you think
about the fact that, you know,
631
00:28:35,940 --> 00:28:39,240
15 million people left
the workforce overnight?
632
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,220
There are 12 million jobs right now
633
00:28:41,220 --> 00:28:44,220
that are outstanding in the United States,
634
00:28:44,220 --> 00:28:49,080
and you have now this very
competitive environment where,
635
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,810
the relationship used to
be all about the employer.
636
00:28:51,810 --> 00:28:56,810
Now it's about the employee
and what they're looking for,
637
00:28:57,150 --> 00:29:00,510
about this whole idea of working remotely,
638
00:29:00,510 --> 00:29:04,290
what's important to them, and
how are you dealing with that?
639
00:29:04,290 --> 00:29:07,200
Cause you're always
thinking about retention,
640
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:08,033
- Yeah.
- You're thinking about
641
00:29:08,033 --> 00:29:09,870
hiring the right talent to build success
642
00:29:09,870 --> 00:29:13,470
and come in and blend in with
your culture in a natural way.
643
00:29:13,470 --> 00:29:16,410
Talk to me about how you're
dealing with that today.
644
00:29:16,410 --> 00:29:17,340
Well, I mean,
645
00:29:17,340 --> 00:29:20,580
it starts at the highest
levels of our organization.
646
00:29:20,580 --> 00:29:22,837
Every board meeting we
have when they ask me,
647
00:29:22,837 --> 00:29:25,590
"What is the biggest challenge
that you face today?"
648
00:29:25,590 --> 00:29:26,977
I say the same thing,
649
00:29:26,977 --> 00:29:30,957
"It's recruiting and
retaining top talent."
650
00:29:32,010 --> 00:29:35,190
That to me is one of
the biggest challenges
651
00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:36,510
that we face as a company,
652
00:29:36,510 --> 00:29:38,700
and many companies who are on
653
00:29:38,700 --> 00:29:41,580
the same growth trajectory
that we are faced.
654
00:29:41,580 --> 00:29:45,240
And we went from 15
people to a hundred people
655
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:46,850
in a matter of no time.
656
00:29:46,850 --> 00:29:51,030
And that's been one of the
biggest challenges that we have.
657
00:29:51,030 --> 00:29:52,770
And then it goes beyond that.
658
00:29:52,770 --> 00:29:55,680
Once you have those key
anchors, how do you,
659
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,840
especially in light of the fact
660
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,660
that we've moved away from office hubs
661
00:30:00,660 --> 00:30:04,290
to distributed,
work-from-home environments?
662
00:30:04,290 --> 00:30:07,590
Are you completely remote, your company?
663
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:08,430
We're mixed.
664
00:30:08,430 --> 00:30:13,430
We are a mix of remote and office-based.
665
00:30:13,582 --> 00:30:16,230
And for us, we'll always remain hybrid.
666
00:30:16,230 --> 00:30:21,230
It's I think become a new
cornerstone of being flexible.
667
00:30:23,370 --> 00:30:25,290
It's the same thing like,
668
00:30:25,290 --> 00:30:27,780
you used to have two weeks of vacation,
669
00:30:27,780 --> 00:30:30,330
now we have unlimited PTO.
670
00:30:30,330 --> 00:30:33,330
And that's something that we
are committed to as a company.
671
00:30:33,330 --> 00:30:36,150
And do you find you're
equally productive
672
00:30:36,150 --> 00:30:37,923
with this model or more productive?
673
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:39,900
We're more productive.
674
00:30:39,900 --> 00:30:43,203
Our company has seen
explosive growth since COVID.
675
00:30:44,247 --> 00:30:49,247
It was in some ways easier
for us to come together,
676
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,010
because it forced us to
focus on our employees
677
00:30:53,010 --> 00:30:55,020
and what mattered most to them.
678
00:30:55,020 --> 00:30:58,860
It really shifted our attention to,
679
00:30:58,860 --> 00:31:00,630
how do we build an organization
680
00:31:00,630 --> 00:31:03,300
that puts our employees first
681
00:31:03,300 --> 00:31:06,450
that understands certainly
that we're living
682
00:31:06,450 --> 00:31:10,890
in very different and challenging times.
683
00:31:10,890 --> 00:31:13,080
And that we had to really innovate,
684
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:14,970
not just from a product perspective,
685
00:31:14,970 --> 00:31:18,030
we had to innovate around
a people perspective.
686
00:31:18,030 --> 00:31:22,260
And that became a critical
part of our mission,
687
00:31:22,260 --> 00:31:24,450
and how we were running
and operating our company.
688
00:31:24,450 --> 00:31:27,420
And it was a huge win for us this year
689
00:31:27,420 --> 00:31:29,280
to be recognized by Fast Company
690
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:30,540
as one of the top 10 most
691
00:31:30,540 --> 00:31:31,680
innovative workplaces.
- Yeah,
692
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,000
congratulations on that.
693
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:33,833
Thank you.
694
00:31:33,833 --> 00:31:35,184
In 2022.
695
00:31:35,184 --> 00:31:40,184
And it came out of this
cornerstone knowledge
696
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:44,640
that our people are our lifeblood,
697
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,390
and we need them to live
698
00:31:48,390 --> 00:31:49,950
and breathe our mission.
699
00:31:49,950 --> 00:31:51,630
And in order to do that,
700
00:31:51,630 --> 00:31:52,980
we needed to put them first
701
00:31:52,980 --> 00:31:56,370
and it really changed the
way we thought about things.
702
00:31:56,370 --> 00:31:58,680
That's why TriNet sort of ran
703
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,870
with the organizing creative principle
704
00:32:00,870 --> 00:32:02,640
of, people matter, and they do.
705
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,940
Do you find that it's successful for you?
706
00:32:05,940 --> 00:32:09,150
Certainly with TriNet being a co-employer,
707
00:32:09,150 --> 00:32:10,740
does that work well for you?
708
00:32:10,740 --> 00:32:13,318
Has that helped support what you're doing
709
00:32:13,318 --> 00:32:16,020
and attract the right talent
710
00:32:16,020 --> 00:32:18,630
and maintain the talent you have?
711
00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:19,463
Michael,
712
00:32:19,463 --> 00:32:21,150
going with TriNet was one of the most
713
00:32:21,150 --> 00:32:25,050
important decisions we made
as a company, hands down.
714
00:32:25,050 --> 00:32:29,070
We went from being unable to compete
715
00:32:29,070 --> 00:32:32,190
with Google and Microsoft and Meta,
716
00:32:32,190 --> 00:32:33,660
the big guys, right?
717
00:32:33,660 --> 00:32:37,153
And unable to keep up with the benefits,
718
00:32:37,153 --> 00:32:41,220
and we were losing people, frankly,
719
00:32:41,220 --> 00:32:44,220
left and right to some
of these bigger houses.
720
00:32:44,220 --> 00:32:45,990
And the second we switched to TriNet,
721
00:32:45,990 --> 00:32:48,390
we were able to offer
something competitive.
722
00:32:48,390 --> 00:32:51,300
It's exciting to be in an
entrepreneurial environment,
723
00:32:51,300 --> 00:32:53,730
but there's brass tax at
the end of the day, right?
724
00:32:53,730 --> 00:32:56,220
People start going through
all of those benefits,
725
00:32:56,220 --> 00:32:58,260
and if you don't stack up,
726
00:32:58,260 --> 00:33:02,340
it's very hard to recruit
someone and get them to say 'yes.'
727
00:33:02,340 --> 00:33:03,840
And it's hard to retain them
728
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,970
when someone else knocks on that door
729
00:33:05,970 --> 00:33:08,250
and offers them something else.
730
00:33:08,250 --> 00:33:10,800
And since moving to TriNet,
731
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,800
our employee retention has just
been absolutely incredible.
732
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:14,670
And frankly,
733
00:33:14,670 --> 00:33:17,040
our benefits are now on par
734
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,320
with any of those big employers,
735
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:24,320
and we're able to offer an
absolutely competitive package.
736
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,220
Oh, that's terrific.
737
00:33:26,220 --> 00:33:27,053
That's good to hear.
738
00:33:27,053 --> 00:33:28,110
Well, I have to tell you,
739
00:33:28,110 --> 00:33:31,080
I've been in media and
entertainment most of my career.
740
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,610
And this is such an awesome
product at Audigent.
741
00:33:35,610 --> 00:33:38,654
I wish I would've had
this like 10 years ago,
742
00:33:38,654 --> 00:33:39,960
but here it is.
743
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,990
And I think everybody who is looking
744
00:33:42,990 --> 00:33:45,390
at the distribution of content,
745
00:33:45,390 --> 00:33:48,720
and how to do this in an
optimized and efficient way,
746
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,990
should definitely check
out your company, Audigent.
747
00:33:51,990 --> 00:33:54,900
I think they're gonna find it beneficial
748
00:33:54,900 --> 00:33:58,200
and it's exciting to see the
developments that you're doing
749
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,180
and the scale and the growth.
750
00:34:00,180 --> 00:34:02,330
It's a very exciting
time for your company.
751
00:34:03,330 --> 00:34:05,550
I appreciate that.
752
00:34:05,550 --> 00:34:06,383
And for us,
753
00:34:06,383 --> 00:34:08,760
I think it comes down to
some simple principles
754
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,200
that we started with.
755
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,590
And it was about being virtuous.
756
00:34:13,590 --> 00:34:16,087
There was a time in ad
tech where they said,
757
00:34:16,087 --> 00:34:17,910
"The good guys can't win."
758
00:34:17,910 --> 00:34:19,350
And I always scoffed at that.
759
00:34:19,350 --> 00:34:24,030
And now I know that the
only companies can win
760
00:34:24,030 --> 00:34:25,860
are the ones that are virtuous.
761
00:34:25,860 --> 00:34:29,250
And when I think about
what the future looks like
762
00:34:29,250 --> 00:34:33,870
for ad tech and data tech,
and creativity in general,
763
00:34:33,870 --> 00:34:38,870
when you know that you need
to have the virtuous circle,
764
00:34:39,090 --> 00:34:41,460
when brands and agencies are gonna win
765
00:34:41,460 --> 00:34:43,560
and content creators are gonna win
766
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,660
and consumers are going to win,
767
00:34:45,660 --> 00:34:47,610
you're in one of the
most powerful positions
768
00:34:47,610 --> 00:34:49,770
that you can be in as a marketer
769
00:34:49,770 --> 00:34:54,660
or a technology platform
or a creative entity.
770
00:34:54,660 --> 00:34:56,610
And so from the very beginning,
771
00:34:56,610 --> 00:35:00,870
we said we were going to create a company
772
00:35:00,870 --> 00:35:03,990
that made sure that we balanced all three.
773
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:04,980
And we've stuck to it
774
00:35:04,980 --> 00:35:08,160
and we've stuck to that
virtuous mission from day one.
775
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,730
And I think it's infused
in every single product
776
00:35:11,730 --> 00:35:14,820
and every single data
relationship that we have.
777
00:35:14,820 --> 00:35:18,030
I want to end with empathy.
778
00:35:18,030 --> 00:35:21,183
Empathy right now is so
important in businesses
779
00:35:22,050 --> 00:35:24,690
and it's become very topical today
780
00:35:24,690 --> 00:35:27,600
whether you're a big
enterprise or a small business.
781
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,620
And you do something unusual,
which I think is interesting.
782
00:35:31,620 --> 00:35:35,340
On Fridays, you have
a very special Friday.
783
00:35:35,340 --> 00:35:39,210
And I want you to talk
about what you do on Fridays
784
00:35:39,210 --> 00:35:42,930
that's so different that
really looks at the culture
785
00:35:42,930 --> 00:35:45,360
of your company and the leadership,
786
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,330
but also more important,
the importance of empathy.
787
00:35:48,330 --> 00:35:50,103
So talk to us about Fridays.
788
00:35:51,450 --> 00:35:52,590
Friday's our sacred day.
789
00:35:52,590 --> 00:35:54,360
We have a meeting at 10:00 a.m.,
790
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,420
and no one is allowed to
book a meeting at that time.
791
00:35:57,420 --> 00:35:59,250
Doesn't matter who
wants to book a meeting.
792
00:35:59,250 --> 00:36:00,870
That's our time together.
793
00:36:00,870 --> 00:36:03,750
And we have an all-hands meeting.
794
00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:05,370
We don't talk about business,
795
00:36:05,370 --> 00:36:08,640
we don't talk about projects.
No one's giving reports.
796
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,730
We talk about each other
and we talk about teamwork.
797
00:36:11,730 --> 00:36:14,010
And one of the hallmarks of our company,
798
00:36:14,010 --> 00:36:15,907
and there's an old saying that says,
799
00:36:15,907 --> 00:36:18,300
"It's just business, it's not personal."
800
00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:20,250
And we've always said it's the opposite.
801
00:36:20,250 --> 00:36:24,270
It's always personal and
it's never just business.
802
00:36:24,270 --> 00:36:26,400
And this Friday meeting
803
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,380
is one of the cornerstones of our culture.
804
00:36:28,380 --> 00:36:32,040
We get together. We talk
about what drives us.
805
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,010
We talk about the challenges that we have.
806
00:36:35,010 --> 00:36:36,710
We talk about how to stay positive.
807
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:38,550
We talk about productivity
808
00:36:38,550 --> 00:36:42,240
and we talk about it as an
entire open organization.
809
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:44,370
No hierarchy, right?
810
00:36:44,370 --> 00:36:46,050
No pretense.
811
00:36:46,050 --> 00:36:47,820
Just a company coming together
812
00:36:47,820 --> 00:36:50,040
in order to support each
other and grow teamwork.
813
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,830
And some of the best moments
we've had as a company
814
00:36:52,830 --> 00:36:55,260
have been in those Friday sessions.
815
00:36:55,260 --> 00:37:00,150
I remember one where we asked
everyone to write an email.
816
00:37:00,150 --> 00:37:02,100
Take five minutes at the
beginning of the meeting
817
00:37:02,100 --> 00:37:04,830
and write a thank you note to someone
818
00:37:04,830 --> 00:37:06,570
that changed their career
819
00:37:06,570 --> 00:37:10,650
or someone that helped
them out on a project
820
00:37:10,650 --> 00:37:12,780
or helped them through a challenge.
821
00:37:12,780 --> 00:37:14,880
And we got through that five minutes
822
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:16,650
and we got back together
823
00:37:16,650 --> 00:37:19,170
and then I flipped it and I said, "Okay,
824
00:37:19,170 --> 00:37:21,540
I want you to open up your inboxes."
825
00:37:21,540 --> 00:37:22,830
And then one by one,
826
00:37:22,830 --> 00:37:25,293
we read the notes that were sent to us.
827
00:37:26,190 --> 00:37:30,180
Michael, there was not
a dry eye in the house.
828
00:37:30,180 --> 00:37:33,120
People reading the gratitude and thanks
829
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,420
that other people were praising them for.
830
00:37:36,420 --> 00:37:38,430
To hear that from somebody
831
00:37:38,430 --> 00:37:41,430
and to read it out loud
in front of other people,
832
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:42,750
were just one of these moments
833
00:37:42,750 --> 00:37:45,540
where we knew this was special.
834
00:37:45,540 --> 00:37:48,240
And you had an example
of one of those moments
835
00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:51,423
which I thought was really beautiful.
836
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:53,430
Can you
837
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:54,980
talk about that?
- Sure, yeah.
838
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,740
This happened about four
weeks ago, five weeks ago,
839
00:37:58,740 --> 00:38:01,650
we were talking about what
drives us in those moments.
840
00:38:01,650 --> 00:38:06,650
What is it that deep down
drives us to be successful?
841
00:38:08,190 --> 00:38:10,050
Why do you wanna win?
842
00:38:10,050 --> 00:38:12,000
Was the question that we put out there.
843
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,823
Why do you wanna win so badly?
844
00:38:15,810 --> 00:38:20,810
And one of our teammates got up and said,
845
00:38:22,396 --> 00:38:24,390
"I'm from a small town,
846
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:28,650
my mother is a special
needs education teacher.
847
00:38:28,650 --> 00:38:31,500
My father didn't graduate college
848
00:38:31,500 --> 00:38:34,050
and he's worked for the
same company for 40 years."
849
00:38:34,950 --> 00:38:37,080
He broke down in front of everybody,
850
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,217
and he teared up and he said,
851
00:38:39,217 --> 00:38:44,100
"I'm here every day because I
wanna win for my mom and dad.
852
00:38:44,100 --> 00:38:46,737
I wanna win for them and
that's what drives me."
853
00:38:49,710 --> 00:38:51,090
That's awesome.
854
00:38:51,090 --> 00:38:53,370
Blew us all away, not
a dry eye in the house.
855
00:38:53,370 --> 00:38:54,720
And it feels
856
00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:59,720
just amazing to have
that level of vulnerability
857
00:38:59,850 --> 00:39:01,740
in a corporate environment.
858
00:39:01,740 --> 00:39:06,120
In an era where so many
corporations are homogenizing
859
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,350
and taking the humanity
out of their businesses,
860
00:39:10,350 --> 00:39:12,540
we're running in the opposite direction.
861
00:39:12,540 --> 00:39:15,930
We're infusing humanity
into everything that we do.
862
00:39:15,930 --> 00:39:20,040
And it's why you have the
level of retention you have.
863
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:25,040
It's why your company is
growing incredibly well.
864
00:39:25,050 --> 00:39:28,590
I mean, just really successful.
865
00:39:28,590 --> 00:39:30,120
And that you have a product
866
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,820
that people in your company
are passionate about.
867
00:39:32,820 --> 00:39:33,653
You know, Drew,
868
00:39:33,653 --> 00:39:36,720
I want to end this with you.
869
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:41,550
We've got a lot of small
businesses, entrepreneurs,
870
00:39:41,550 --> 00:39:45,330
startups, cottage businesses,
and people listening to this.
871
00:39:45,330 --> 00:39:48,870
What advice would you give
somebody who has an idea,
872
00:39:48,870 --> 00:39:52,770
they think it's awesome and
they want to start a company.
873
00:39:52,770 --> 00:39:54,840
What would you say to them?
874
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:56,040
You can't do it alone.
875
00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:58,800
People matter.
876
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,140
You can come up with the greatest idea.
877
00:40:01,140 --> 00:40:03,360
You can come up with the greatest product
878
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,460
or the greatest service,
879
00:40:05,460 --> 00:40:09,000
but it takes an entire company
880
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,410
in order to move that forward.
881
00:40:10,410 --> 00:40:12,690
You've gotta be able to share your vision.
882
00:40:12,690 --> 00:40:15,240
You've gotta be able to create mission
883
00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:18,240
and you've gotta be able to
rally people around that.
884
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:21,630
People matter the most
in making that happen.
885
00:40:21,630 --> 00:40:22,830
And you can never forget that.
886
00:40:22,830 --> 00:40:24,543
You can never do anything alone.
887
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:26,760
This is terrific, Drew.
888
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:28,980
I want to thank you for your time.
889
00:40:28,980 --> 00:40:33,540
Just a lot of insights,
a lot of experiences
890
00:40:33,540 --> 00:40:35,760
and a lot of advice for people.
891
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,610
You all have to check out Audigent.
892
00:40:38,610 --> 00:40:40,200
You must go see what they're doing.
893
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:41,820
You can certainly see that online.
894
00:40:41,820 --> 00:40:44,190
Drew, I want to thank you so much,
895
00:40:44,190 --> 00:40:46,530
very passionate about what you're doing,
896
00:40:46,530 --> 00:40:50,610
and I can't wait to experience
some of your product myself.
897
00:40:50,610 --> 00:40:55,410
So, thank you again for being
here and sharing with us.
898
00:40:55,410 --> 00:40:58,003
So terrific to be
together, Michael, thank you.
899
00:40:58,003 --> 00:40:59,163
I really appreciate it.
900
00:41:00,090 --> 00:41:02,220
I want to thank you,
Drew, for joining us today.
901
00:41:02,220 --> 00:41:03,510
I mean, this was amazing.
902
00:41:03,510 --> 00:41:05,370
The great insights that you provided
903
00:41:05,370 --> 00:41:08,130
for small businesses is just awesome.
904
00:41:08,130 --> 00:41:10,800
And hopefully, people,
you've learned quite a bit,
905
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,440
you certainly know about
the company, Audigent.
906
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,570
I wanna remind everybody that our podcast,
907
00:41:15,570 --> 00:41:17,070
Shifting Grounds by TriNet,
908
00:41:17,070 --> 00:41:20,100
is committed to helping small
businesses and their leaders
909
00:41:20,100 --> 00:41:23,220
with timely and relevant business content.
910
00:41:23,220 --> 00:41:26,910
Shifting Grounds drops
new episodes every month.
911
00:41:26,910 --> 00:41:28,410
We hope you continue to catch
912
00:41:28,410 --> 00:41:30,510
our new episodes, new guests,
913
00:41:30,510 --> 00:41:34,440
on Apple, Spotify and Rise.TriNet.com,
914
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,120
and YouTube.
915
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,700
To get relevant SMB news and info,
916
00:41:38,700 --> 00:41:41,280
make sure to subscribe to our podcast
917
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,530
and to our newsletter, very important,
918
00:41:43,530 --> 00:41:45,360
at TriNet.com.
919
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,201
Thanks for listening.
920
00:41:47,201 --> 00:41:49,784
(upbeat music)